Gas Prices

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stuffradio
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Re: Gas Prices

Postby stuffradio » Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:39 pm

Hound wrote:The whole process of electric cars and what has to be done with making and getting rid of the batteries is going to be far worse for the environment than what we have now.

Some people like to ignore this fact so they can be seen as progressive. There's no simple way to get rid of oil consumption, and no easy way to be more "green" without being more dirty at the same time.

If you want to achieve something, I think the only place you can start is in the biggest cities like Vancouver, Toronto, Seattle, New York etc. because for example, people in Maple Ridge, Mission, Abbotsford, Chilliwack have to travel to Vancouver for their jobs, and they can't do that if you take away the cars.

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stuffradio
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Re: Gas Prices

Postby stuffradio » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:40 pm

Gas is 154 today.

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Hound
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Re: Gas Prices

Postby Hound » Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:28 am

I let my passport expire otherwise I'd head south! :x :x
Might head out to Abby for gas. This is BS and the public let them get away with it!
Fraser Heights, Surrey. (Elevation: 85 M. 278 Ft.)

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Abby_wx
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Re: Gas Prices

Postby Abby_wx » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:31 pm

It's getting pretty bad and demand will only worsen with population growth. No one in government wants to build a new refinery, so I think we have no choice but to proceed with the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion. The government should also make it conditional on approval that the new pipeline must supply us with enough fuel to make up for any shortfall from the Burnaby refinery. We should never have to import gas from WA at a huge markup.
"It's not logical... it's meteorological."

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Canada Goose
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Re: Gas Prices

Postby Canada Goose » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:52 pm

Abby_wx wrote:No one in government wants to build a new refinery, so I think we have no choice but to proceed with the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion.

Would the gas price drop with the pipeline?

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Abby_wx
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Re: Gas Prices

Postby Abby_wx » Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:08 pm

Canada Goose wrote:
Abby_wx wrote:No one in government wants to build a new refinery, so I think we have no choice but to proceed with the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion.

Would the gas price drop with the pipeline?


It depends on whether or not they use some of the new capacity for sending refined products. We currently get more than half of our gasoline from the existing pipeline. The main purpose of the new pipeline will be for sending diluted bitumen for export, but they should be able to send additional gasoline as well (in either the new pipe or the existing one).

We are currently importing a lot of gas from WA, which costs much more (I've heard estimates of as much as 15 to 20 cents more per liter) than getting it from the pipeline or refining it locally. That's why the best solution would be a new refinery.

http://www.oilsandsmagazine.com/news/20 ... l-refinery

If they build the pipeline but don't increase shipments of gasoline, then we would need to continue importing it from WA state, so there would be no change. Some say the new pipeline would actually increase prices by 2.2 cents a liter (https://www.nationalobserver.com/2017/0 ... llion-year), but this is a small cost compared to the cost of importing it from WA.
"It's not logical... it's meteorological."

Near Hwy 1 McCallum exit; elevation 55 m (180 ft).
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stuffradio
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Re: Gas Prices

Postby stuffradio » Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:03 pm

Abby_wx wrote:It's getting pretty bad and demand will only worsen with population growth. No one in government wants to build a new refinery, so I think we have no choice but to proceed with the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion. The government should also make it conditional on approval that the new pipeline must supply us with enough fuel to make up for any shortfall from the Burnaby refinery. We should never have to import gas from WA at a huge markup.

My knowledge is a bit fuzzy on whether or not the pipeline allows us to get our gas, but we definitely need our own refinery to do this.

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Abby_wx
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Re: Gas Prices

Postby Abby_wx » Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:18 pm

stuffradio wrote:
Abby_wx wrote:It's getting pretty bad and demand will only worsen with population growth. No one in government wants to build a new refinery, so I think we have no choice but to proceed with the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion. The government should also make it conditional on approval that the new pipeline must supply us with enough fuel to make up for any shortfall from the Burnaby refinery. We should never have to import gas from WA at a huge markup.

My knowledge is a bit fuzzy on whether or not the pipeline allows us to get our gas, but we definitely need our own refinery to do this.


I don't know. The new one may be specifically for dilbit. However, what it will do is free up some capacity on the old pipeline, which can be used for delivering gas.

We probably won't need a new refinery if we can get more gas delivered through the pipeline. It's up to Alberta to figure out if they can send us more gas -- which is why I think our government should be pressing them to supply us more gas as a condition of approving the pipeline (if that ever happens). We should be getting something out of this deal, other than just the risk of ruining our coastline.
"It's not logical... it's meteorological."

Near Hwy 1 McCallum exit; elevation 55 m (180 ft).
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Glacier
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Re: Gas Prices

Postby Glacier » Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:26 am

stuffradio wrote:
Abby_wx wrote:It's getting pretty bad and demand will only worsen with population growth. No one in government wants to build a new refinery, so I think we have no choice but to proceed with the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion. The government should also make it conditional on approval that the new pipeline must supply us with enough fuel to make up for any shortfall from the Burnaby refinery. We should never have to import gas from WA at a huge markup.

My knowledge is a bit fuzzy on whether or not the pipeline allows us to get our gas, but we definitely need our own refinery to do this.

There are ONLY two kinds of pipelines.
1) Natural gas pipelines.
2) Liquids pipelines.

Liquids pipelines (such as Trans-Mountain) ship all liquid products one after the other (crude oil, heating oil, diesel, gasoline, etc.). The new pipeline will add capacity, and that will definitely increase supply and reduce the price.

Now, BC has the highest fuel taxes in North America, so no matter what, we will have higher gas prices than anyone else, but in addition to taxes, we pay more because of the bottleneck of the pipeline. That's why the rack price (wholesale price BEFORE taxes) in Vancouver is currently well over 90 cents/litre.

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Typeing3
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Re: Gas Prices

Postby Typeing3 » Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:37 pm

Abby_wx wrote:
Canada Goose wrote:
Abby_wx wrote:No one in government wants to build a new refinery, so I think we have no choice but to proceed with the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion.

Would the gas price drop with the pipeline?


It depends on whether or not they use some of the new capacity for sending refined products. We currently get more than half of our gasoline from the existing pipeline. The main purpose of the new pipeline will be for sending diluted bitumen for export, but they should be able to send additional gasoline as well (in either the new pipe or the existing one).

We are currently importing a lot of gas from WA, which costs much more (I've heard estimates of as much as 15 to 20 cents more per liter) than getting it from the pipeline or refining it locally. That's why the best solution would be a new refinery.

http://www.oilsandsmagazine.com/news/20 ... l-refinery

If they build the pipeline but don't increase shipments of gasoline, then we would need to continue importing it from WA state, so there would be no change. Some say the new pipeline would actually increase prices by 2.2 cents a liter (https://www.nationalobserver.com/2017/0 ... llion-year), but this is a small cost compared to the cost of importing it from WA.

If we actually refined the raw bitumen first in Alberta or added a new refinery here, that could have a huge effect on prices.

From what I've heard and read over the years about this is mind-boggling. We ship most of our raw bitumen to refineries in the USA and most of the refined oil that we then buy from them - for extravagantly high prices - can actually be sourced back to Alberta. The article you linked actually mentions this as well.
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